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A place to discuss the politics of the day.

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 #231028  by tinman
 July 13th, 2010, 7:55 am
slimpants wrote:The New York Times. Sunday, July 11, 2010

...And this month, a second panel at Penn State University exonerated Michael Mann, a prominent climatologist and faculty member, of scientific wrongdoing... :!:
Au contraire. We all know Michael Mann created Miami Vice. He is a well known Hollywood Director, not a prominent climatologist.

Another ruse! :lol:
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 #231040  by 300maximilien
 July 13th, 2010, 10:18 am
All Buzz Words set aside.....do you guys (non Gloarmers (made that up myself) really feel that we as humans are not overly polluting this world? And are not leaving behind a toxic existence for our future generations? I am talking about people here not Mother Earth itself (which I know will shake us humans off like the fleas that we are). I truly feel that 100,000 years from now humans will be buried with the Dinosaurs.
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 #231058  by beespecial
 July 13th, 2010, 1:14 pm
300maximilien wrote:All Buzz Words set aside.....do you guys (non Gloarmers (made that up myself) really feel that we as humans are not overly polluting this world? And are not leaving behind a toxic existence for our future generations? I am talking about people here not Mother Earth itself (which I know will shake us humans off like the fleas that we are). I truly feel that 100,000 years from now humans will be buried with the Dinosaurs.
Humans polluting the earth? Absolutely. One has only to stop his car at a stoplight and survey the cigarette butts and other litter to see that a good percentage of people just don't give a crap about something as simple as throwing their trash away when they arrive at their destination, so why would they care about the climate?

Are airborne pollutants contributing to a change in climate? I'm simply not convinced. But I do agree that in probably much less than 100,000 years, yes, humans will be gone from this planet. But it will be more likely because some nut-job religious zealot leader of a terrorist country gets his hands on nuclear weapons and decides that because the rest of the world isn't praying to his god then he's going to kill everyone. I am a whole lot more afraid of that scenario than of "global warming", or "climate change" or whatever is the term du jour.
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 #231068  by Opticon
 July 13th, 2010, 3:23 pm
300maximilien wrote:I truly feel that 100,000 years from now humans will be buried with the Dinosaurs.
I see human civilization as a part of nature. We absorb resources and emit pollutants just like any other organism. Our capacity for intelligence and innovation has brought us farther than most species and may afford us a great chance of survival as we develope new technology and maybe even expand to new worlds...or maybe the collectivists will tax all motivators (money, power, freedom) to such a degree that the entire human race will instead feed off the welfare state, become stagnant, and perish.

Either way, to jump to conclusions about a solution to a potential climate problem and make laws about it just to feel like we did something for future generations is nothing short of masturbation (See: The old King of England building a fence around the edge of the flat world to keep the boats from falling off). You aren't that smart, You aren't that important, and for someone to think think they know enough to FORCE other people to follow their lead is just plain arrogant.

If you think cars should be more efficient, start a car company. If you think powerplants could be more efficient, develope and submit a plan to a power company. But when somebody tells me I can"t use more than 1 sheet of toilet paper because it's killing our children... I want to knock them out and use their face to wipe.



EDIT: Remember, the climate debate is not about whether humans are polluting the planet but about how politicians can use another "crisis" to grab more control of industry and tax things. Energy responsibilty should be a PERSONAL endevour. Industries will identify an energy consious consumer base and market to it. And higher efficiency needs no legislation or regulation. It has always benefited industry to use more efficient technology.
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 #231075  by 300man86
 July 13th, 2010, 4:30 pm
Opticon wrote:
300maximilien wrote:I truly feel that 100,000 years from now humans will be buried with the Dinosaurs.
I see human civilization as a part of nature. We absorb resources and emit pollutants just like any other organism. Our capacity for intelligence and innovation has brought us farther than most species and may afford us a great chance of survival as we develope new technology and maybe even expand to new worlds...or maybe the collectivists will tax all motivators (money, power, freedom) to such a degree that the entire human race will instead feed off the welfare state, become stagnant, and perish.

Either way, to jump to conclusions about a solution to a potential climate problem and make laws about it just to feel like we did something for future generations is nothing short of masturbation (See: The old King of England building a fence around the edge of the flat world to keep the boats from falling off). You aren't that smart, You aren't that important, and for someone to think think they know enough to FORCE other people to follow their lead is just plain arrogant.

If you think cars should be more efficient, start a car company. If you think powerplants could be more efficient, develope and submit a plan to a power company. But when somebody tells me I can"t use more than 1 sheet of toilet paper because it's killing our children... I want to knock them out and use their face to wipe.



EDIT: Remember, the climate debate is not about whether humans are polluting the planet but about how politicians can use another "crisis" to grab more control of industry and tax things. Energy responsibilty should be a PERSONAL endevour. Industries will identify an energy consious consumer base and market to it. And higher efficiency needs no legislation or regulation. It has always benefited industry to use more efficient technology.

well said.
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 #231077  by 300man86
 July 13th, 2010, 4:46 pm
Craig, hate to bust your bubble but I don't completly 100% agree with your view.

We've had natural global warming and cooling in the past before man was even present.
Yes I do think during the industrial revolution time we didn't really give a crap about the environment and that we only focused on the building of our country. We as individuals didn't know that back then. Look at the Dust Bowl for example when we overharvested crops for a couple of decades.

I'm sure some of the older members on here remember the 1970's when the smog was so bad in major cities that it made it hard to see and breathe. But over the years, we have cleaned up our act. Our cars today are more fuel effecient and somewhat more reliable than before.

The sad thing is that the global warming view is being shoved down our children's throats in the classrooms and even at the college level that global warming is a human imact. Some teacher/professors explain the natural occurrences to the warming and cooling of our planet. They like to blame us. I've heard this numerous times in the college level especially. Even when you disagree with their views on their exams you have to comply with their views ortherwise you may end up losing points on the exams which I think is BS. Had this happen to me several times.

politcians will always use this global warming thing as a tactic to get elected/relected in office. Look how much money Al Gore and Micheal Moore made off of their videos. "Do as I say not as I do". Gore is such as hypocrite

I think in the near future more advanced technology will come about to reduce the amount of emissions given off. What I'm worried about is that there may come a time that the good old classic car you once drove may not be permitted to be driven because of the amount of pollution given off. The owner may have to convert the car over to an alternative fuel or pay a much higher tax to operate the vehicle.

If we remain optimistic instead of pointing fingers or playing the blame game I think we will be okay. In the meantime, let the scientists develop the new technology.

Chris
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 #231081  by Bill Putney
 July 13th, 2010, 5:08 pm
As I have pointed out many times before, does everyone realize that even if you believe the numbers that the hoaxters claim for warming, over the entire last century the total rise (their numbers mind you) was less than 1°C. LESS THAN 1°C RISE IN THE ENTIRE LAST CENTURY - AND IT IS NOW COOLING DOWN AS HAS BEEN PROVEN BY NASA'S OWN GOES SATELLITES AND OTHER DATA.
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 #246683  by 300maximilien
 February 3rd, 2011, 10:08 am
EPIC STORM HITS USA

Global Climate Change is happening....doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Doesn't matter which political party you want o believe. Lucky for most of us reading this....we won't have to worry about it.
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 #246704  by Bill Putney
 February 3rd, 2011, 12:12 pm
I remember when winters were routinely more like what we're seeing now. I remember me and my siblings building snow forts and digging a network of tunnels that we could crawl thru in our yard in the snow in central VA when we were growing up in the 50's and early 60's. I'm living in VA now.

People are only remembering the milder winters we've been seeing during the last 10 or 15 years and think that's been normal for a century.

See "solar cycles".
 #246709  by 300Michael
 February 3rd, 2011, 12:45 pm
This weather makes me want to go out and put some more CO2 in the air. I guess all these Hybred/Electric cars are cooling the earth. 29F in Phoenix, that just isn't natural.
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 #246710  by 300maximilien
 February 3rd, 2011, 12:49 pm
300Michael wrote:29F in Phoenix, that just isn't natural.
exactly the point
 #246724  by tinman
 February 3rd, 2011, 2:47 pm
300maximilien wrote:
300Michael wrote:29F in Phoenix, that just isn't natural.
exactly the point
But not what one would call global warming...
 #246742  by Tarheel
 February 3rd, 2011, 5:11 pm
Al Gore would. :roll:
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 #246744  by Bill Putney
 February 3rd, 2011, 5:12 pm
300Michael wrote:This weather makes me want to go out and put some more CO2 in the air. I guess all these Hybred/Electric cars are cooling the earth. 29F in Phoenix, that just isn't natural.
LOL! I'm totally convinced that we could be in an ice age and the politicians would still be screaming that we have to cut CO2 emissions. They'd still be telling us how global warming can cause an ice age, CO2 causes global warming, therefore, to stop the ice age, we have to cut CO2 emissions. It's insanity.

Remember that line from Ol' Suzanna? "Sun so hot I froze to death...".

Here's an honest question: If CO2 causes temperature rise (which it doesn't - the data that shows that increase in temperature is followed by increase in CO2 was frudulently faked and presented by Al Gore to show first the CO2 increase, then a rise in temperature - the time scales on the two sets of data was shifted), then if now the people who were claiming golbal warming are now saying "Oh - did we say global warming? Sorry - we meant climate change", then why are they still saying that CO2 (plant food) emissions must be reduced? They weren't saying then that CO2 prevents fluctuation (changes) in the weather - they specifically said (and "proved" by manipulating the data) that increased Co2 levels cause increased global temperatures. So when they quit talking out of both sides of their mouths, maybe I'll start listening. But that will never happen because there are too many lies to keep covering up, and every time real science is done (like the NASA GOES satellites), it proves once more that their models and claims are totaly wrong.

It's all about money (creating a false and manipulatable economy based on a totally invented commodity (CO2)) and transfer of wealth (tear down the U.S. without building anything else up), and gaining power to manipulate everything in our lives. True science has nothing to do with it. It's all voodoo.
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 #246780  by krautmaster
 February 4th, 2011, 12:17 am
All politics aside, the problem of climate change is not going to go away. There are too many factors involved (solar cycle, earths wobble on it's axis, deforestation, carbon dioxide levels, etc.) but you cannot ignore the fact that the climate is slowly changing. The earth is a relatively cool place compared to what was normal when the dinosaurs roamed, and it's going through yet another warming cycle, we just helped speed it along. Getting there will entail years of massive storms (both winter and summer), a possible mini ice age in the eastern 1/3 of North America and Northern Europe if the gulf stream current shuts down.

The problem is what are we going to do to survive the long term changes as much of our crop lands become arid wasteland, water becomes more valuable than oil and gold, and many of the animals we consume become scarce. No one is making serious plans to deal with the enormous human migration that will take place (and the ensuing warfare) as starving bands of people attempt to move to where the food and water supplies will be. The earth will be an ugly place for our great-great grandchildren, and I'm glad I won't be around to see it all collapse...... or to have to eat Soylent Green.
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