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  • 2002 300m 3.5 engine seized

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Repair Questions and Answers.

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 #391534  by Burn59
 
Hi all,
it's looking like my 300m is toast, 2002 3.5HO, oil looks fine no signs of overheating but can't turn the crank?
It was running off like it was missing when accelerating then just died it was turning over?
when the shop got it, they told me it was seized,
I took the plugs out and tried to turn the crankshaft manually, but it won't budge...
any ideas???
I don't want to let it go only 150k and as mentioned oil looks good no signs of overheating?
If it is seized, what then should I parts it out or just salvage it, not sure what they pay these days?
really bumming me out, all new suspension, brakes, exhaust, I was going to fix some minor rust
and have it painted this summer really in the dumps, any ideas or suggestions might help...
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 #391536  by LUNAT1C
 
Did they tell you what makes them definitively believe it's seized? It's not impossible, but usually the catastrophic failure is a thrown rod bearing (would still start likely and sound like a beat up diesel) or a ripped timing belt (in this case, won't start). What is the coolant level? Did it run out? Did the temp gauge peg the red when it shut down? Did the mechanic pull the inspection cover to confirm status of the timing belt?

Regarding value, all depends on the car and its condition. Rare parts would be in Specials, Pro-Ams, etc. The cars are not worth much as a whole these days, except in these really weird used car prices times (though non-running makes it a moot point anyway).
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 #391537  by Burn59
 
No they just pulled the plugs and tried to turn the crank manually, it didn't overheat it was just running funny and was spitting low voltage codes and crankshaft position codes
when i would accelerate it would pop or miss and then it just died it was turning over but wouldn't start then I had it towed and that's when they told me it seized.
I might try to pull the timing cover but is it worth the effort if I can't turn the crankshaft by hand?
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 #391538  by LUNAT1C
 
Did you or they disconnect the crankshaft sensor or the camshaft sensor and try to start it? If those sensors fail, the engine will not start. If those sensors have been replaced with aftermarket parts, they will fail.

Turning it by hand can sometimes be difficult to do, especially if the belt has ripped. Interference engine, so if the belt rips then the pistons will contact the valves, and the valves will exert a force against someone turning by hand.

Not much effort to pull the inspection cover. Remove the upper radiator support, alternator belt, idler pulley assembly, then it's a few bolts to get the small cover off.
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 #391539  by Burn59
 
Thanks, I just pulled the battery and started to take off the upper radiator support assembly, the battery is dead on a charger, but I think it's toast...
they did not tell me they pulled the plugs so that didn't help it's been sitting since March; I haven't had time to look into it till now...ouch
 #391561  by Burn59
 
Already ran into a few problems...
1. I'm not as young as I used 2 be,,,lol
2. Got all the 10mm and 13mm bolts from the upper Radiator assembly out and the hood latch...
biut there's one long skinny small bolt on the passenger side assembly frame not sure if it's hex or star torque
but it's rusty and looks striped, I tried 2 heat it up and turn it with a vice grip not sure what it's for it's near the right headlig.ht lens
attached to a Busching, not sure if I can cut it or what any ideas or insight welcomed...lol
3. Since the plugs have been out since march should I pour some oil in each socket or is that a no no????
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 #391563  by FIREM
 
Bolt is one of 4 headlight retaining bolts that are / were 7mm head and easily stripped. You could pound a 6mm socket on to get them out.
If the engine is truly seized bearings would be suspect before pistons. Only other thing I can think of to check is Torque Converter to Flywheel bolts. If backed out could get stuck on the back of the block. Access thru the trans to oil pan structural collar.
Does the engine move at all in either direction?
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 #391570  by Burn59
 
Thanks, I was told it would go back a tad but that was it, I haven't tried myself yet hard to get under the car these days.
I appreciate all the replies and input and will try to post updates but just doing a little here and there right now...
 #391573  by RobNJ
 
Vice grip on that headlamp bulb bolt works or cut a slot to use a flat blade screwdriver. Banging on it may crack the headlamp, so be aware.

Did you try to go other direction on engjne turning? I have a feeling things went out of time and you are hitting a valve. Going opposite direction for a few degrees would confirm.
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 #391574  by Burn59
 
Thanks, I'll try that with the headlight bolt...
They said it turned back a little if that was the case and it went out of time and hitting the valve , what would that cause and is it fixable or what???
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 #391575  by FIREM
 
Timing belt if jumped time usually bends valves.
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 #391578  by Burn59
 
It was running fine, idling smooth but when I accelerate it would bog or miss (weird) to get up to road speed I would have to baby it slowly
I had AutoZone read the codes, I had a light on from an evap issue but no different warning light it was spitting a bunch of codes mostly low voltage
and crankshaft position he didn't give me a readout not sure why, then on the way home i tried to accelerate through a light and it just died very mysterious?
No overheat or rough running oil is new and full and looks good?
 #391597  by Burn59
 
Not much of an update, I'm 2 old for this and having to beg borrow or steal tools...lol
I did more research my next steps are to take off the belts and take out the starter and see if i can
manually turn the engine over afterwards if not then remove the timing cover and see what the belt
and gear pulleys look like...any and all input is more than welcome and much appreciated for sure!
Meanwhile another question since the plugs have been removed should i pour some oil or aim in there
any advice on that idea from all you more competent mechanics out there, please and thank you....

Just not ready 2 let her goooooo
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 #391598  by In-trepid
 
No need to remove the starter.
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 #391599  by LUNAT1C
 
I can't imagine why removing the starter would help, unless the starter was having an issue previously and you think it might be seized? Pulling the inspection cover for the timing belt is much, much, much easier than removing the starter, I would do that long before I thought about the starter. Starter requires unbolting the engine and trans mounts and lifting the engine.
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 #391605  by Burn59
 
Right...lol
I was having some issues with the starter for a while just a flat spot never got around to checking it out...smh
Doing research, I saw it could lock onto the flywheel and prevent turning the motor over manually?
I may not take it out out unless I can sneak it out if I remove the heat shield, I've never done it myself...lol
Same with the belts my brother-in-law is a Mechanic, I ran it by him, and he said he has seen cars come in seized
or not turning over because of a seized alternator or AC compressor thus taking the belts off and seeing if she turns...
I'm trying everything I can think of with limited resources and knowledge to say the least not to mention time, weather,
She's sitting outside in the sun and I'm 63 going on 100...lol